Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
 | [Post Date: 07-Jun-2006 23:10]
This is kind of a question which will be linked to a suggestion.
The question is, how many max planets can each race have?
As far as I know Krong arent limited in any way, Humans can have 150 without attacking, Mercs obviously cant have any, and Fagur only get 150 after assimiliation. Thats just my present knowledge, but i would suggest either extending limits for fagur and humans to catch krong or limit krong planet amounts.
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Green
[ Posts : 1005 ]
 | [Post Date: 08-Jun-2006 13:34]
Krong has no ability to conquer planets - it must clear it before landing. But Krong is limited too - it must use near all (>>95%) planet surface after XXX (150 less or more - it depends from galaxy) planets was occuped by I-nodes.
So, we think, the game has perfect balance - you may disagree, but I can say, that you just not faced wit well-organized alliance with different races/sides.
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jun-2006 22:39]
Well a member of an alliance im in has like 700 planets as krong. Which according to the limits is perfectly fine i guess. Oh do fagur and humans have the "every 500 turns you can get 50 more planets" rule? I know you can get more by assimilation, but id like to maximize my planet numbers.
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
 | [Post Date: 09-Jun-2006 22:59]
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Oh do fagur and humans have the "every 500 turns you can get 50 more planets" rule? I know you can get more by assimilation, but id like to maximize my planet numbers.
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I think it works like this:
Humans start with a max of 75 planets and fagur start with max of 50. Each 500 turns you are allowed 25% more planets but as human the overall max by colonising is 150, not sure what overall fagur max is but it probably has one
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Vhaeraun
[ Posts : 37 ]
| [Post Date: 10-Jun-2006 07:42]
Krong have the unlimited planet colonization ability except for having the 95% or more of the land has to be used as to counter their inability to not be able to conquer planets. Krong's bombardment ability is horrible, really horrible. Also against a good Fagur player or several, a Krong player would be destroyed by his inability to counter attack the Fagur planets (bombardment, conquer/assimilating). This also works with Humans, human might have a harder time as they have to pass the units in orbit before being able to bombard/conquer.
Also there is another good/bad point for Krong colonization, Krong buildings have the ability to lift off from a planet to avoid bombardment/assimilation/conquering, this is a nice ability in concept but not in practice. Only works if you know when your enemy units will arrive. This has an effect on Krong's colonization, unlike Human and Fagur colonization, Krong don't have the easy ability of sending an Egg/Colony Ship that builds a central building (Hive/Habitat) where from here you're able to select which buildings that you want to build and how much while seeing how much space you'll have left/be using.
Krong have to select a planet then find out what he wants to do with that planet and then figure out how much buildings does he want to send there, while also figuring out how much space will he be using/be left.
Krong colonization is not a joyful task you can trust me on that. I like playing Krong even through that big advantage disadvatange. I also like playing Fagur as their planetary management/colonization is alot easier and assimiating planets is a breeze. Can't say about Humans haven't played them in awhile. Also managing several hundred planets is not easy.
Anything else?
This message was edited by Vhaeraun
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 14-Jun-2006 05:48]
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Krong have the unlimited planet colonization ability except for having the 95% or more of the land has to be used as to counter their inability to not be able to conquer planets. Krong's bombardment ability is horrible, really horrible. Also against a good Fagur player or several, a Krong player would be destroyed by his inability to counter attack the Fagur planets (bombardment, conquer/assimilating). This also works with Humans, human might have a harder time as they have to pass the units in orbit before being able to bombard/conquer.
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A. Thats why Krong have a little lovely called the U4. It rids the universe of all the pesky fagur/human planets that it can.
B. With a mighty fleet of lore, (a fleet i once possessed in TG, around 3 million U2s and 50k or 500k U3s which could drop 180 million damage but was impossible to move, hence its worst flaw), one could easily knock down the defenses of a world and blast it to hell. The bombardment of U2s (provided they bombard things and im not confusing them with y units) MIGHT be useless or horrible, but 3 million of them do some damage. Nothing would have stood up to that fleet. (i miss it so). Also, if you bombard with y-units, i think possessing some several hundred planets would allow you to obtain several million per turn. In a few turns you could obtain a massive fleet of 10s or 100s of millions (maybe even billions) of y units, which would bombard a planet more then sufficiently. Now to wrap up this little rant, if U3s were to be the units that bombard, then youre screwed something terrible. U3s suck something awful compared to U2s.
C. If im completely wrong then just point out that i am and feel free to laugh. (Btw that fleet was real and i miss it because it took all of TG to assemble and never saw action. Something like 10 billion energy to move the ships.)
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 14-Jun-2006 12:56]
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A. Thats why Krong have a little lovely called the U4. It rids the universe of all the pesky fagur/human planets that it can.
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U4's are the best weapon on the game but are not useful for invading. You can easily destroy planets and stars as krong but invading/bombarding is weak.
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B. With a mighty fleet of lore, (a fleet i once possessed in TG, around 3 million U2s and 50k or 500k U3s which could drop 180 million damage but was impossible to move, hence its worst flaw), one could easily knock down the defenses of a world and blast it to hell. The bombardment of U2s (provided they bombard things and im not confusing them with y units) MIGHT be useless or horrible, but 3 million of them do some damage.
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U2 cant bombard, only Y-units can. U2s are just for attacking in space.
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Nothing would have stood up to that fleet. (i miss it so).
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Except my fleet of 450,000 cap ships that I had in Virgo last round
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Also, if you bombard with y-units, i think possessing some several hundred planets would allow you to obtain several million per turn.
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You would probably need around 1000 planets to produce 1 million Y units per turn. Especially if you are landing plenty of CEC for defence. As krong your CF take lots of space meaning that you need tons of planets. Also 1 million Y-units per turn seems a lot but they are equivalent to human fighters in power. With science levels high fighters only cost 2 metals and energy each turn meaning that you can produce 1 million fighters per turn also. Humans have the disadvantage of maintenance though where this would drain your resources to support these ships, while krong have the disadvantage of acceleration cost.
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Now to wrap up this little rant, if U3s were to be the units that bombard, then youre screwed something terrible. U3s suck something awful compared to U2s.
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The cost of morphing 1 U3 is the same about as morphing 7 U2 so you get a lot more damage for resources using U2. However this the same with human fighters compared to cap ships. You could get about 1000 fighters for 1 cap ship but maintenance costs of supporting huge amounts of fighters is too high. This is the same for krong. You can easily morph tons of U2 but accelerating them would cost a lot more than accelerating enough U3 to do the same damage.
You have to find what units are best for what you are doing. For defending your core and stars u2 would be best as they do most damage for the resources you use. For attacking fleets at the others side of the galaxy you would be better to send U3 as these would cost less energy to accelerate than U2 to do same amount of damage.
Anyways, each race has its advantages and disadvantages. It isn’t just krong but all 4. As krong acceleration is your biggest disadvantage, as human it is maintenance costs, as fagur it is being unable to defend or attack in space and also having limits on max amount of creatures and for mercs the disadvantage is having to have fleets within influence range and always sending them from the base.
This overall makes all the races balanced as they all have disadvantages that limit them
This message was edited by Emperor L
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 18-Jun-2006 00:06]
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Nothing would have stood up to that fleet. (i miss it so).
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Except my fleet of 450,000 cap ships that I had in Virgo last round
Touche. A fleet of...oh i dont know...8 million U2s could beat that lol. Since my fleet was only 3 million U2s, you win this round, for now. I shall make it a mission to make a fleet horribly immobile yet incredibly powerful. God that will take a long time...
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 18-Jun-2006 00:56]
I still aim to get a fleet with 1 million cap ships, that would take billions of metals and energy but is possible...
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 07-Jul-2006 13:38]
I think that the biggest problem with krong is that CEC have such high attack in space, 920 is still very high. (9200 on ground it is fine as they are limited to a few hundred and you expect to take a few losses when bombarding), but in space CEC are a problem.
For example 1 CEC has more HP than a human capital ship and almost as much attack in space. But the cost of a CEC is only 150 Y units, nothing to a krong. Cap ships though are several thousand metals and energy (even with high science levels). A krong could easily build hundreds of thousands or millions of CEC (and they do) for the purpose of attacking indirectly or defending planets.
By attacking I mean they send them to systems where the defending empire has fleets. Fleets must be agressive status to prevent U4 from enering and by sending a few thousand CEC they can easily draw the attacks of the fleets and then send in u4 when it is destroyed.
Also often it is easy to leave several thousand CEC in orbit of stars to defend against bombardment. This is also fine if they had less attack. But at current levels even a few can destroy more bombers than a highly defended planet. With 300000 or more CEC around the GP planets krong can easily defend the planet against all attacks, as it would take about 300000 Cap ships to destroy them, and with human planet limits this is a huge ammount of resources. In peacefull rounds I have colonised all the best planets and had huge ammounts of resources being made, even then building 300000 Cap ships is extreemly difficult.
All this is made worse by krong having an unlimited number of planets (it is easy to cover all your planets 95% and more of an advantage to use your space to the maximum ammount, it isnt realy a limit), just about how much time you are prepaired to spend landing nodes.
I am not saying this because I lost a few ships one round, but because it does seem a problem, even when playing krong I noticed that humans could do very little against my forces that could easily be rebuilt with the income I had from many hundreds of planets.
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but I can say, that you just not faced wit well-organized alliance with different races/sides.
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This is possibly true, but getting an organised alliance is not easy, expecialy with so few players. This problem is not with krong, but with having few players as a whole. It is not an easy problem to solve either.
But after all that what could be done?
One posibility could be to increase maintenance cost of Krong units the more they have, a bit like with merc modules have maintenance increase as they get more. This would also act as a form of colonisation limit as it would get to expencive to expand after a while. I am not sure how much maintenance costs are for krong, or how much they should increase. But a possible ammount is:
At start 1 CEC has maintenance cost of 1 energy (very little as they will produce alot more than this anyway) after this each 2000 CEC that are built could increase maintenance by 1, maning that when a krong has 100000 CEC the maintenance is 50 energy each per turn. CEC that are landed should not be effected though as they are the main defence that krong have, its just in space they are a problem.
Not sure if every 2000 is too high, may be too much but just an example
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